Bought one and delivered 28-05-21 even using a less rigorous cleaning regime can absolutely support the sonic improvements, it is like a veil being lifted and the machine is a joy to use. I'm hearing things on records I know very well that I've never heard before, wow
Hi Paul, I took the plunge, and after an 8 week wait my machine arrived today. Very pleased with it and currently cleaning my entire record collection...! It's all your fault for posting such an excellent review! Incidentally they obviously changed the mould tool as my water tank only has the minimum mark and not the max.
I build my own including a ventilator (In house) drying system. It works excellent. The degritter is a nice machine, but for many of us just not in the right price range.
Thank you for infecting me with your madness .. my machine arrived a little over a week ago and now with 17 pieces of vinyl getting the full treatment ( six heavy, plus a rinse ) I’m confident enough to tackle my early BEATLE UK albums. Thanks again , and you will be great company as I embark on my first true audiophile ( within reason ) system since my original one from the mid-eighties ..
I have read through your written review. Very in depth and quite fascinating. The machine looks like it's a winner. A bit out of my price range unfortunately, but appreciate your time reviewing.Thanks.
Great review. Pretty pricey, but waiting for mine to arrive now... Really like your channel and reviews. Quick question. Have you tried the HumminGuru 7 inch and 10 inch adapters with the degritter? Is there any reason why they may not work with the degritter? They are half the price for each one... $80 per for Degritter adapters and $40 each for HumminGuru adapters. Just curious...
Great to hear your thoughts on the Degritter, Paul. Happy to hear you are also impressed with the performance and thought that went into the design. Must confess I have never cleaned the same record four times on a heavy cycle :) Cheers. /Paul
Thanks Paul for such interesting and comprehensive review of the Degritter. In the past I bought a Knosti and found it got rid of static but didn't the get the records very clean because I was still sometimes getting a bit chunk of fluff on the stylus after playing one side. I've now got a Project VCS Mk1 RCM and it seems much better than the Knosti. I think it does a better job, ie no fluff on the stylus after playing a record. I've only ever used Project's own-brand surfactant, so now armed with the knowledge from your video on surfactants I will be trying other brands (oh the excitement). I think I like yourself I am a lost cause and if I bought a Degritter I may have to be admitted to the Betty Ford clinic for recovering audiophiles. Keep up the good work. Love your channel
Paul, i was just introduced to the Kirmuss vinyl restoration system by a respected audiophile who sells high end equipment, I was not able to determine if you have evaluated the Kirmuss but if not I hope you will do so. Charles Kirmuss asserts that RCM vacuum machines, manual systems and even ultrasonic systems that use “specialty”solutions only add to the problem of residue left on vinyl and static charges created by these systems. I would look forward to seeing you evaluate the Kirmuss. Sincerely,
Please look into the Humminguru £250 solution that just finished its Kickstarter. Looks great. I think it will retail at around £350 and will be an entry level bespoke sonic record cleaner.
This gentleman’s sound-quality descriptions border on satire. They’re pompous, they’re preposterous, and… they’re the exact sorta phrases I also use 😂. Ah, jeez - I have to say, I do love his specificity: “The ride cymbal never disappeared - each strike now rang thru to the next…” “A sound so confident that it- it was arrogant…” “It made the lead guitar, just, real - its presence now felt completely real.” I’m paraphrasing here. There were so many more gems, just in this one video, too. 😆 Oh, man - this is my kind of nerdery. 👍👍
You answered every question I had about the Degritter ( Thank You ) ! I am thinking about buying a Okki nokki too use then using the Degritter after. I have put a lot of money into my collection and I feel that my vinyl deserves the best treatment! So one Day when I pass on my collection in my WILL those who acquire it are able to enjoy it as much as I did. Not my intention to be morbid ;-) looking forward to episode 2 of this video Cheers
Hi there, great vid I think im going to get one after watching your video. Its very expensive but likely worth it in the long run. Could you give me some info on the special solution you put in it to get the best out of it. Thanks Sean
Paul, Love your video on this subject. Do you think there can be any damage done to a record by cleaning it as many times in the Degritter as you describe--up to 6 heavy cycles? Thanks!
Very nice of you, thank you. I don't although grabbing a second tank to do the rinse is in my head to sort out at some point. To be honest though, rinsing with the same tank hasn't produced any notable issue in sound terms. One thing though, rinse with alcohol because you're looking to remove remnants of glycol (you do use glycol as per my cleaning guide, don't you? I can send a link if you have yet to see that.) plus any other nasties hanging on for dear life. The alcohol will get rid of any of that.
@@TheAudiophileMan Okay thanks. Could you send me the link for your cleaning solution where you use glycol? Also I assume you use isopropyl alcohol in your rinse. How much isopropyl alcohol do you add to the distilled water? Thanks again!
As usual, an incredible & worthwhile video. I'm about to buy the MKII version. I saw an online review of the MKI, where the user said the cleaner was required to be plugged into a wall socket that was 20 amp. Did you find that to be the case Paul? Also, the same user found after cleaning two LPs, the temp was too high & the cleaner went into cool down mode. He said this was a frequent issue. Have you found any issues on this Paul?
Many thanks and well, I just plugged the Mk.I into the wall and thought nothing more about it, to be honest :) Never had an issue with cool down. I think in the years I've had it, it's entered cool down mode once during a massively hot heatwave. That was it. As long as you give the box plenty of space, don't stick it near a radiator, don't corner it in, don't cover it or silly things like that...you'll be fine. I have a Mk.II here to review but it won't be on the channel for some time because of the large review queue I also have here.
@@TheAudiophileMan Thank you so much Paul for the very quick response reference my queries. Looks like I'm about to pull the trigger on buying one then. :) Regards, Pascal
That guy’s video doesn’t match my experience with my Mk1. A 20a circuit requirement for a 300w device makes no sense. At 110v, you’re only pulling an average of 2.73A. It’s more likely he has a bad IEC power cable.
Hi Paul! I'm curious about how you're executing your final, distilled-water-only rinse. Are you fully drying the record after the last surfactant cleaning cycle before the rinse? Or are you maybe leaving the record wet, switching water tanks, and rinsing it from there? (In part I'm trying to understand how valuable/useful having a second tank would be.)
Hi Derek. Yes, I dry first. Then rinse. Only because the drying cycle demands it and I'm in the mode so I'd have to reconfigure the cycle or stop it half way and it would take me more time to faff around doing that. Swopping tanks is an option but I haven't gone that far yet. I'm in two minds because the single tank appears to work well with no obvious issues as long as you swop the water out on a regular basis. But if you want to go the two-tank route, then sure, that should work well.
I bought this machine on your recommendation and am very happy with it so far. Curious if using it without the supplied cleaning fluid would yield better results if you say the fluid clouds the sound at all frequencies.
Check out my own vinyl cleaning guide. It's generally aimed at manual cleaning but if you read up until the Disco Antistat enters the scene then all of that, to that point is relevant to the Degritter. Give me a shout if you need further info: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
Hi Paul I could see the enthusiasm you have for this cleaner, and by the end of the video I was totally sold my self. Which got me thinking,yes it is very expensive. And you could buy a good performing record deck for the money. But hears the thing ,we would still not be getting the best out of our vinyl . So as you implied this unit could be the best upgrade you could possibly make. Which brings me to my last intriguing thought, could one get away with a less expensive setup because the source material is manifestly improved . Food for thought as they say . Best wishes as always 😀👍👍👍
It all matters, basically :) I encourage a balance in terms of investment which is why I reviewed and recommended the budget Disco Antistat for manual cleaning on lower cost systems.
@@TheAudiophileMan yes you are right , but I have many records that have never responded to conventional cleaning and really are unplayable. Not I stress through scratches , but pure surface noise. Just the thought of going through my collection and knowing they would sound as good as possible , would prompt so say right sunshine your for bin or sail And my wife would get so space back 😂👍👍👍
I have a £30k turntable and to some extent it was wasted money as I was not hearing the full potential of my system, after 2 heavy cleaning cycles the sonic improvement is well wow and why did I wait, easily equivalent to an extra £2k on a styus!
Great review Paul as usual I can believe the way you done the cleaning taking 1 hr was worth the time spent but 2500.00 is a lot of money have you tryed or reviewed the kirmuss ultrasonic the way they say to clean records the very same way and it takes around 40 mins no dryer but not needed the way it’s used thankyou for a great review Ian
Thanks Ian. Yes, check out my in-depth two part Kirmuss review on my website. It’s a much cheaper machine, it’s decent but doesn’t have the same abilities or performance as the Degritter. The extra cash spent on the Degritter - if you can afford it - is worth it. As I said in the video though, the lower-priced machines are still very useful.
I would have liked an a/b comparison of some discs, pre- and post- cleaning (maybe spoken word to avoid content matches, as techmoan did). Also an indication of energy usage. Other than that, interesting review!
I've commented on this sort of thing before and off the back off other products but I don't do that sort of thing, I'm afraid. And won't do in the future. You would not be hearing the benefits of the Degritter or what it's capable of, if I did that. You'd hearing the device that's playing your video. Nothing more than that. Even if you hear changes in 'tone' during the video, that sound will have absolutely nothing to do with the original hardware. Zero. Zilch. So I won't deceive my viewers by including it. Nope. Even so - many thanks for your kind words :)
@@TheAudiophileMan fair enough, I do understand where you're coming from. But as someone who is most interested in improving general vinyl 'noise' (background crackle and pop etc) I think such a demonstration would be feasible. That would be more helpful for me than a subjective assessment of vinyl woo such as 'an airier soundstage'. Anyhow thanks for responding, cheers!
@@grayhalf1854This is where the rubber meets the road. Perhaps there are audiophillic benefits to cleaning with the degritter but all I really want to know is how many pops and clicks it can remove. This could easily be shown in a video.
Hi, nice video thanks. I'm wondering about the DIY filters. Can you please let me know what a ‘Wotsit’ shape is? And also a link to any of the tools you've found to make the shape? Cheers!
Here's a link to the company's filter supplies. Hope that helps in shape terms: degritter.com/product/replacement-filters/ I must find a link to a RUclips guy who produces his own, he might be better in tool/technique terms. I haven't quite got my act together on that score. I'll have a hunt about for that link.
Hi Paul, I am considering to get ultra sonic vinyl clearing machine. But I can't decide which one to buy : degritter vs Audio desk pro Discard the price difference, but which one is best in clearing the LP, get the best cleaned out of its. I hear yr review on both machine on RUclips. Thanks for your opinion in advance.
Hopefully the Humminguru machine works well when it get released in a few days and if it does, it will force competitive pricing across the board. 3000.00 is a bit excessive (and these guys aren't even the most expensive).
Great review! I'm a bit of a 'lost case' myself for the 'need' of getting the most of information out of my discs, so I figure once I have all the tools, yes, including the Degritter, I also will have to go all that 6-hellish cycle-way. Just one question here. I just received the Tergikleen. The enclosed instructions give a warning not to add alcohol to the Tergikleen. This might lead to a decrease of the Tergikleen's effect. You add Tergikleen to the record and put the record in a tank with a mixture of destilled water and alcohol. So I wonder, have you tried a cleaning cycle with the Tergikleen where no alcohol was involved?
Yes, I did extensive tests with and without alcohol. Without reduced the cleaning effectiveness by a magnitude. Alcohol (up to a measure of 7%) does the best job of removing (melting away) excess oils. Actually, I'm *counting* on the alcohol removing the Tergikleen (don't forget the Glycol in there too, incidentally). I'd be in trouble if it didn't. By the time the alcohol has removed the Tergikleen, the ultrasonic cleaning has already done its thing and Tergikleen has done its job. So the Tergikleen enables the cleaning efficiency to be at its highest, cavitation scrubs the groove, the alcohol melts the Tergikleen away into the bath. Sorted.
Question. When you do the 6 cycles/washes do you let each cycle complete, meaning the drying portion as well? Or do you stop the Degritter before the drying and restart the washing?
Wow! What a review Paul! I found it really interesting. I have recently got back to vinyl and have a rather nice system costing a significant amount of money. I am however rather disappointed in my record cleaning attempts. I am considering buying a Degritter and have watched this video from beginning to end. Just a couple of (probably obvious) questions... When you say you cleaned the records several times by applying surfactant to the record surface and then cleaning in the machine, do you change the solution in the tank? I'm thinking the surfactant content and therefore concentration will increase each time you clean a record. Can you elaborate please? Also for the final rinse, do you drain and refill the tank with a fresh solution of IPA and distilled water prior to rinsing?
Thank Monty - I do change the tank but not after every clean. It depends on the condition of your records but I change after around 30 cleans or so on average. I haven't noticed any changes in performance doing the clean this way. That said, you could, if that's an issue, buy an extra tank and plug that in for the 'rinse' cycle to ensure a clean wash.
In the water? That's reduces efficiency because you're adding carefully diluted surfactant to yet more water which dilutes it again while the point of the surfactant - reducing surface tension in the grooves - is largely negated because what's left of the surfactant only effects what it touches. Via the bath? Not a lot. Even surfactant directly on the record is not as effective if it has not been pushed into the grooves via a Kabuki brush. See this Guide for more: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning. This is Part 1. Part 2 (also on my site) focuses on RCM use. Ultrasonic will be Part 3, I've yet to do that. That said, the Record preparation for Part 1 will also appear in Part 3 so by all means check that out.
Hi Paul, due to some surgery I had to postpone getting my Degritter. But this week, finally, yes! I went to my local store and got me one. Hurray! Hurray? Already during the first run in the WASHING-mode the record (140 gram vinyl) hardly rotated. Furthermore, the Degritter showed me more than once, it was 'cooling water'. I got this message during the HEAVY mode opeation. So I asked Degritter (they already promised me a new machine because of the rotation problem) if the 'cooling water' was there because of the spinning problem. But it wasn't. It was merely beacuse (quote Degritter) "the machine uses quite a lot of ultrasonic power to clean records. Some of this power is lost as heat in the cleaning water, so it requires cooling". Because you were using the HEAVY cleaning cycle as well I was wondering if you got the 'cooling water' message (the cooling process automatically adds 3 minutes to the program, so you really want to avoid that, especially when it starts to occur more than once in the same washing cycle) and how you dealt with that. Degritter had some solutions: use a second water tank (one in use, one just used and cools off), add distilled water ice cubes or place an icepack in the removable water tank. So I wonder, if you had the same message, what was your solution? Thanks!
Hi Bart, I hope you’re on the road to recovery and feeling a wee bit better. For the Degritter, cavitation in and of itself produces heat (which is why I am always suspicious of cleaners with temperature adjustment controls). If you use the Degritter (in fact any ultrasonic cleaner) in a hot climate or if the cleaner doesn’t have enough air circulation then it can get a bit too hot. I haven’t had this issue but if you do then I would insert distilled water ice cubes in the bath to keep the temp down. The ‘heavy’ option shouldn’t be a factor in itself.
@@TheAudiophileMan hi Paul, thank you for your quick response! And yes, glad I'm about to leave the long and winding road to recovery, . First thing I will do when the new Degritter has arrived is place it somewhere else in the room where air circulation might just be better. If that doesn't do the trick, well, I will place it in a larger room in a cool place. That should solve the problem. If not, I'll -as you suggested- go for the distilled ice cube option because an icepack might pollute the distilled water and alcohol in the watertank.
@@TheAudiophileMan un update on my Degritter. I received the new one and yes, the records are spinning just fine now. Because I still had a temperature 'issue', I placed the Degritter in my cellar (which we use as a film room). Room temp there is 18.5C. The room measures 5.2m x 4.5m x 2.35m (H). The machine sits at 40cm above the ground, stand on the righthand side 1.15m from the closet 'object' (stairs) and on the lefthand side 1.25m (a chair). The distance to the wall behind the Digritter is 20cm (also tried 10cm and 40cm). The best I can do now before the 'cooling water' message kicks in, is three cyclus of heavy washing. At the first start the temp measured 20C/20C, at the end of the thrid cycle it was 27C/29C. I tried a 2nd watertank (I bought one extra with my 1st Degritter), to continue right away but was able to only do two more cycles and then the temp again was 27C/29C. Yes, I have a bottle of distilled water in the fridge and also distilled ice cubes in the freezer. Just in case.... Because you never had a the 'cooling water' message I asked myself the question if you run all your seven (or maybe even more) heavy washing cycles in one go. Right one after the other. But could it be there were pauses in between the cycles or could you have missed the message. (The message disappears after 3min.) If not, then not all Degritters work the same.....
@@bartfeis3925 There's gaps. That might be the answer. Have you seen my Vinyl Cleaning Guide? Part 1 is aimed at manual play but the preparation for the cleaning of the vinyl is exactly the same for the proposed Pt.3 of this Guide aimed at Ultrasonics. It'll be a cut and paste job. So I prepare the vinyl with a surfactant, etc for each and every play. So yes, there is a pause in between cleans. If you haven't seen the Guide please do - it makes a big difference to the sound quality. The Degritter is great on its own but I actually see it as just one tool in a toolkit of hardware and liquids...if you're looking to get the best from it: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
@@TheAudiophileMan I saw your Vinyl Cleaning Guide, ordered all the stuff required (incl an extra Disco AntiStatic bath for the last rinse operation) to do the manual washing and did that exactly in the way you described it and did that for about 4 months. So now, using the Degritter, I keep on preparing the vinyl with the surfacant (1 ltr distilled water, added 10 drops of Tergikleen). And after that -it a short pause-, sometimes the machine drops actually the temp by 1 degree. In the first cycle the temp rises with 4 (left number) and 5 (right) degrees. On the 2nd cycle another (the right one dropped 1 degree because of the preparing-the-record pause) 2 and 3, on the 3rd 1 and 2 more dgrees. So I still can't get my head around why one machine doesn't rise the temp and the other does. Different software?? I've got 2.2.17v10.
Too many people complaining about price. I mean when you pay 5 dollars for a Sammy Davis record and you take it home and plunk it down on your 4000 dollar turntable playing through your 5000 integrated amp, its like buying an Aston Martin and putting dirty gas in it. To the people talking about building your own,sure you can build something similar for far less but it wont be as nice nor will it work as well nor can you just set and forget it.
i have watched both your videos on audio desk pro and degritter. looks like the degritter is the winner. I've been debating between the 2. my question: the audio desk has brushes that can remove fingerprints and stuff on vinyl. with degritter it doesn't't. so do you need to preclean a dirty vinyl prior to degritter? i have a VPI 16.5 and thinking of keeping for those instances. thanks
I'd keep the VPI as a secondary system for another room or second hifi and I'd use that with a Disco Antistat. The Disco provides the sort of attrition that a VPI doesn't offer. Have you seen my manual cleaning guide on my site? I'd use that and utilise the VPI to hoover the excess liquid after a Disco scrub. As for the Degritter? I've never had finger print issues. Cavitation should sort that, especially on the longer cycles and also if you use my surfactant treatment. Again, the website Guide talks about the latter.
I know they are at very far ends of the price spectrum, but does the degritter clean records better than the Disco-antistat? I would love a Degritter but it’s beyond my means at the minute. Could I get a similar clean from the Disco-antistat?
Yes it does. The Disco is remarkably good for the price though. Especially combined with my own Cleaning System. Check out this Guide: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
I'm a new fan. I purchased a degritter based on your review. I also purchased some Tergikleen. My intention is to use the Tergikleen first and then follow the instructions for the degritter. My question is in the proper application of the Tergikleen. How should I approach it without purchasing a manual cleaner? Is it as simple as applying with a microfiber cloth?
Hi - please check out this Guide from my website: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/ Its aimed at the manual, Disco Antistat but the background part, the tools and the vinyl preparation will be the same for a later Guide that I'll be sorting for the Degritter. Read that, any questions - give me a shout.
so years old grubby vinyl can be made to sound amazing but what about brand new records? would you notice any improvement (assuming storage contamination from manufacture to first play)?
Yes. Absolutely. Vinyl leeches an oil from within it's own inherent recipe to eject it from the press. No one removes that. The pressing plant certainly doesn't. It's too busy packing and shipping the things. So who needs to shift the stuff? You, my friend :)
Thank you for this review -- it's exciting to hear about the range of sonic improvements that are possible with successive cleanings. My question is, how does the Degritter perform in banishing some lingering crackles & surface noise on otherwise clean-looking records? I've got a few LPs that, after vacuum & other cleaning, look great and have great fundamental sound, but also have some persistent surface noise here & there. Wondering if the Degritter would quiet them down further.
This should sort all of that for you. Also use in conjunction with this feature. It's aimed at manual cleaners but the first - what - 14 steps should be used for vinyl prep before using the Degritter. There's no difference: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
Hi Paul, What steps would you recommend for cleaning the Degritter when switching between different cleaning fluids? I recently tried the Audio Intelligent Ultrasonic cleaner and to my ears, I feel the LP’s sound a little less airy and missing some top end, so looking to go back to the Degritter fluid. Presumably, a vinegar rinse would be needed and if so, two heavy cycles per the manual? Would there then be a need to rinse again with clean distilled water and to then replace that with distilled water for cleaning with the solution? Thanks for the help in advance!
I would advise checking out my Vinyl Cleaning Guide here. It's aimed at manual cleaners but the earl parts (pre-Disco) are valid for ultrasonics too. Have a read/watch and if you have further questions, give me a shout: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
Interesting and informative video (as normal from you 👍). Confused slightly regarding IPA concentration - 7% here, but a previous video covering this topic and you optimised IPA concentration at 0.5/1.0%? Reasons for this change? TIA.
Glad you noticed, Jamie - 7% is only needed if you use Glycol during cleaning. See here for more on that: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
Paul, did you look up the meaning of "bespoke" before you began using it so liberally? It means something custom made for an individual, such as a tailored piece of clothing. But certainly you are not the first to misapply it. I remember some years ago one or two writers at The Absolute Sound became fond of inserting that in reviews. Wrong then and wrong here. All that aside, thanks for your detailed review of the process and this machine.
I did use the word intentionally because I wanted to convey the fact that this is an ultrasonic cleaner 'designed for' a niche band of users. It is not 'off the rack'. As are the gamut of broad-based machines you might find within Amazon. The Degritter cannot be used to clean your false teeth or your wedding ring, as most other machines can (even many of those that purport to be vinyl cleaners). Hence, I wanted to emphasise the specific application and audience that this design addresses.
The only issue with heavy washes is that after 2 or 3 albums, the Degritter goes into a water cooling cycle that lasts about 4 minutes. This can be a bit frustrating at times. I’ve found that doing several quick washes on a album produces about the same results. With this method, the Degritter can wash about 8-10 albums before it enters a 4 minute cooling cycle. Also, while it does a good job on reducing random surface noise from dust particles and other light contaminates, it doesn’t remove small specks of crud that would cause a stylus to skip. That calls for elbow grease and an record cleaning machine for assistance. It does improve the sound of albums as you described. I also give my albums a final rinse with distilled water using my co-located record cleaning Okki Nokki machine. This has been my experience thus far after having cleaned almost 250 albums. I love it’s convenience and improved Sonics best of all. I use TergClean in the bath, but I’m going to try it diluted directly on the album itself on my next run of albums.
I haven't been subject to cooling cycles, I must say and I've pushed my review machine pretty hard. Have a read of this Guide and see what you think. It's for manual users but the basic advice also works for ultrasonic cleaners and I'll be repeating myself over much of this Guide when I do a specialist ultrasonic written Guide: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
I also have this issue (cooling sets in after one or two heavy cycles) and wonder how much the ambient temperature (in the room where the machine is) affects this or if the different machines have different tolerances. My machine also "foames" the water a lot if I run it with low water level. When setting the level to medium it still "foames" the water to some extent when starting a cleaning cycle after the machine has been sitting for a while. The first quarter and up to three quarters of the record can get "foamed" before the water settles and stops "foaming". I might add that I have only used Degritter´s own cleaning fluid in the water tank so far. Will be doing the surfactant/alcohol in bath routine shortly.
Do you use two separate tanks when applying wetting agent vs. just a water rinse? Or are you applying the wetting agent directly to the vinyl? Either way doesn’t the wetting agent filter back into the tank after each use? And if so, the final rinse is still with water that has some wetting agent in it. Please clarify. Thank you.
On a general note, you can use two tanks although I never really found the need, to be honest. Specifically though? The surfactant is applied directly to the vinyl surface. There is a tank build up yes and I tend to replace the contents every 30 or so cleans. Depends on the state of your vinyl, though. The final rinse is just another cycle without the surfactant applied to the vinyl surface. Don't forget the alcohol, diluted into the tank too. Check out the vinyl prep portion of this Cleaning Guide for more info on preperaring your vinyl and the use of alcohol and Glycol as part of the cleaning regime. I use all of these when using the Degritter: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
Well, what can I say. To my eyes one of the best videos across. Thank you. So, does this video point out "Assuming Audio Desk as one of the best, Degritter is far above", right?
Can you please define “rinse cycle” ? Because if you only have one tank, and you are using it for your initial wash cycle, then are adding surfactant, that surfactant is then now diluted into your wash tank. Now you are doing multiple wash cycles after that, so what ar you doing differently to constitute a rinse cycle with the Degritter? I’m bit sure I’m following you. I tried using the included Degritter solution, but thought I heard some veiling as you suggested in your review, so I dumped the tank and have been only using distilled water and nothing else. But I feel like I’m not using my Degritter without using some sort of a solution, but the thing is, I don’t know how to “rinse”, and I’m seeing that you have to rinse the LP when using a solution. What am I missing? Thanks.
Firstly, please check out this website Guide for manual vinyl cleaning: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/ Yes, it's aimed at a manual system but the basics will remain for a future Guide on ultrasonics. I'll be repeating much of this feature there. It will hopefully help in your cleaning quest. Secondly, the 'rinse' itself merely means cleaning the disc but adding *no* surfactant this time around. This allows the alcohol in the bath to remove any final residue. The latter is required. Water only wouldn't be as efficient. It's the final residue spots that we're attacking here. Despite the obvious recontamination concerns because were using a single bath source, the 'rinse' cycle works very well and I notice a definite sound change, as noted in this review. The change continued with the same bath for many cleans too. You can buy spare baths, if you have the budget so you could 'hot swop' a clean bath for the rinse cycle if you wanted to go that far. I won't be doing that because I was happy with the rinse performance 'as is'.
Thank you for your response. To be clear.-You are adding the diluted tergikleen direct to disc in between each heavy wash cycle. 5-6 times in total. Then you drain all the used water out of the tank, (or if you have a second tank) use fresh distilled water for a “rinse cycle” but with some alcohol added. How much alcohol should be added per gallon of water? Thanks!
In all honesty, have you ever tried the degritter to clean a record that was previously cleaned by a cheap Chinese ultrasonic machine? Did it really improve the sound? Because I already own a Chinese machine and to me, the technology is the same, so I don't see how this could be an improvement. Yes, 'finer bubbles', but does it really matter? Can you hear the difference?
I love this thing, but they really went overboard with the price (I know there are other more expensive machines), the introductory price was just right 1800€. I would buy that in a blink, but 2770€...no thank you.
There are some videos I have seen that suggest that after ultrasonic cleaning the records lose weight. This of course must be partly put down to the removal of dirt, but I am concerned that there may be a loss of the actual vinyl itself, which I also have heard that with ultrasonic cleaning may be the downside of this method. Several RUclipsrs have recommended that ultrasonic cleaning be kept to a minimum. I can understand, with my limited knowledge of physics, that the impact on vinyl with the "exploding' bubbles could do at least in the long term damage the record. Do you think there is any basis for my concern?
Six cleans and a rinse seems excessive and unnecessary wear and tear on your 3k purchase. My collection was already cleaned the old fashion way by hand so I’ve had great success as follows for clean and new records. Applying a mixed application of distilled water, 9.99% alcohol and Tergikleen direct on the surface with a soft brush. 1 medium wash and dry and then 1 quick wash and dry rinse. LP’s come out sounding amazing and I’m not racking up a ton of cycles on my machine.
How would I justify the investment on a Digritter vs the current turntable/stylus, amp, etc? Want to clean and use my old albums, but may want to upgrade components first. All within reason.
I had the same question. I have a $1,500 very basic system - Klipsch 5s and a $600 pro Ject TT w Ortifon red cartridge. I was trying to decide between upgrading the speakers (to passive) with a new amp and preamp. Those I’ve chosen would cost I think $3,500. Or I could keep what I have, which I like but may not love, and get Degritter for my aging collection. Any thoughts?
I would like to work with what I have if possible. I currently have a Marantz SR7010, refurbished Technics SSL1300, and Paradigm speakers. Should I consider upgrading any? If so to what? (so many options). Also should I use D4 with Parastat brush to maintain vinyl that’s been cleaned with Degritter but stored for a few months?
Wondering if you run a dry stage in each cycle? Drying can be turned off by setting drying time to zero. This might actually be better and shorter in time when you’re running multiple cycles. You’d turn on drying in the last cycle of course.
Yes, I do run a dry stage in order to maintain the proper ratios - as a first point - and not to have any alcohol residue remaining on the vinyl - as a second.
I would be interested to know how many times you have to clean a record on the Degritter before the stylus stops picking up crud from the depths of the grooves. I've been a full time record dealer for over 20 years and have a number of different types of wet/vacuum RCM's and an ultrasonic record cleaning machine and have literally cleaned thousands of records. I haven't found a machine yet that removes ALL the crud from the grooves. There is always deposits on the tip of my Gyger S Goldring 1042. I've experimented with 6 cleans on my RCM's and my ultrasonic but there is still crud on the tip of the stylus. Will the Degritter eventually remove all the crud so that none appears on the tip of the stylus?
Check out my own vinyl cleaning system here, via this link. It's Part 1 and focuses on manual cleaning via a Disco Antistat but the early parts are still applicable to RCMs and ultrasonics. I would say that 'crud' is easy to remove but only part of the problem. More in the feature: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
@@TheAudiophileMan The Degritter either removes all the crud from the grooves or it does not. Without a microscope to inspect every 500+ metres of groove the best test for crud removal is the tip of the stylus. I have been cleaning records for over 20 years and I have a Moth RCM, two Nitty Gritty RCM's, a disco-antistat and an ultrasonic cleaner and none of them remove all the crud from the grooves regardless of how many times I clean them. I've used diluted natural alcohol, isoproponal alcohol, distilled water, wetting agents and they clean the surface fine but the deep grooves still have the crud. I am fully aware of the correct cleaning regime with a final rinse in distilled water but it always results in a psychoacoustic improvement in sound quality BUT still crud on the tip of the stylus indicating that the improvement is not 100%. When you tested the Degritter did you check the tip of your stylus? Does the Degritter remove ALL of the crud? Before I shell out the best part of £3,000 I would want to know that the Degritter is actually cleaning everything from the grooves.
@@TheAudiophileMan Thank you for replying but I found the answer I was after from a comment on your website review of the Degritter. STEVEN CROOK 18th October 2020 at 11:06 am "Great review. I finally took the plunge around May this year and have been delighted by the results. I have a copy of Abbey Rd I’ve rarely played, purchased new in the 80s. I’d cleaned it on a Moth, played it before Degritter cleaning and the stylus came back clean. After Degritter my stylus had a beard by the end of side 1. Played it again, virtually no beard. Cleaned again, beard. I went through 6 cycles before I got through side 1 with a clean stylus. I didn’t play side 2 at all until the last cycle and the stylus came back clean. From which I concluded that some LPs are just born dirty, and that if there’s a *lot* of dirt in the groove it gets removed, like paint, a coat at a time, with the next layer loose, but not removed. I’ve since seen this with three or four other LPs (out of the 500+ I’ve cleaned) so not common, but still a thing." As I suspected the Degritter does NOT remove stubborn crud from the bottom of the groove. It moistens the top layer and it is the action of the stylus which removes this top layer. Each clean moistens the top layer and it is the stylus which removes it. STEVEN CROOK needed 6 cleans before his stylus stopped picking up crud. As this is the case I have saved almost £3,000 not buying a Degritter and relying on my existing RCM's, cleaning fluid surfactant and cleaning regime knowing that it is the stylus which is actually removing the crud all of which should be removed by the sixth clean and play. Keep up the good work as I enjoy your reviews and have been a regular reader of Hi-Fi World magazine for many, many years.
@Geoff B This is why I posted the vinyl cleaning link to you. Any cleaner is not a silver bullet. You don’t focus on one item and expect magic results. It is part of a team that should be used alongside other tools and liquids. This is why I have spent years researching vinyl cleaning. A Degritter is the best vinyl cleaning tool currently on the planet but you need to utilise it correctly. Doing so, as directed will quickly remove all “crud”. I never suffer from it. I don’t even see it when I use a Disco Antistat. To repeat, that’s the easy task. That’s only half of the cleaning job. But I talk in more detail about that via the link.
Yes, it's amazing...but... I bought a Humminguru, upgraded my phono, and spent the rest on new records ;) My records are cleaner than ever and I have many more of them. With the Degritter I'd be eating crackers for half a year and still couldn't afford new records ;)
Although this is a review of the Degritter and not an A-B comparison, I did do that very thing and found that the the best the Audio Desk could do mirrored the simplest, basic clean on the Degritter. So the Audio Desk went all out, huffed and puffed and got as far as the bottom rung on the Degritter performance ladder. Then the Degritter went on from there, as described in the review.
@@TheAudiophileMan Thanks!!! I appreciate the reply. Which version of the AD did you use? The newest Pro X model? Did you use the same cleaning solution in each? I may have missed it but where can I find your cleaning solution recipe? Thanks !!!
The Pro - the X is basically the same. All variables were the same across my comparisons. Please check out this Guide for recipes and basic techniques which I also use for ultrasonic cleaning: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
@@TheAudiophileMan BTW Awesome job on this review. I’ll be sure to do a rinse with just distilled water. I’ve cleaned my entire collection but now as I play them I do a rinse with just distilled water to remove any lingering surfactant. Keep it up! Love your channel.
Hey Paul, since Triton X-100 creates better bass and Tergitol better highs, incorporate them into a single cleaning plan. I suggest three applications each of Tergitol then Triton surfactants, one after the other. A final rinse and finally the sky's open the sun shines brightly and we arrive in Lp Valhalla. Screw Brunnhilde , let Alberich abscond with those rings, Degritter and some surfactants will lead me to the twlights of the gods! Or maybe just some great sounding lp's. I'm good with that.
I think Triton created better bass because it's adding something to the surface of the record. That's my thought, anyhow. The more I use both, the more it appears that Tergitol leaves no residue (after a rinse, I hasten to add) and so is more transparent. That's why I didn't switch to Tergitol. Mixing the two would be detrimental, therefore.
Hello. Very interested in this machine. As most ppl, hesitant at this price point . My current cleaning set up is spin clean, then vacuum on the record doctor VI. I think it’s getting a good clean, but am still hearing some pops clicks etc. is this machine superior to my method and is it worth the money? I appreciate any input and advice. Thank you. Joe
Hello. So I purchased the machine. Love it but am hoping you can shed some light. I bought the additional tank. So my process is one tank filled with the degritter cleaner, run a medium cycle then exchange the tank out with the other being just distilled water. Run again. Is the rinse cycle necessary to do after using the surfactant? Or is it not necessary.I’m hoping you can let me know if that is correct procedure. Thank you. Joe
Yes, the rinse cycle is important to get rid of any residue. Otherwise, your stylus will play it and you don't know if long term surfactant exposure might be detrimental to the vinyl itself.
Why do not you recommend the dishwasher I can not see the logic in your recommendation, if the company says it's ok, Keep the good work coming , tkanks
Sure, you can use that. With a hand wash I can be in control of what bits get washed, using what extra attention and pressure if required, etc. Either is fine.
Paul, --This was a great video, but you talk only about the improvement in the sound of the music, etc. after cleaning(s), but nothing about how well the Degritter actually cleans records of noise, resulting from dirt/junk in the grooves, which is the main objective to begin with. It would have been great if you had recorded the sound of a dirty record playing on your system before, and after a cleaning, to hear the difference. Not even a mention of that improvement aspect of the cleaning.
Yes, fair point. When I did the initial review, I think I was in the middle of some heavy-duty vinyl care testing. I'm talking years of testing here. I'd reviewed the manual Disco Antistat, I'd researched my own Vinyl Cleaning Guide (have you seen that yet?) and there was some meaty, long term, intensive testing going on with other associated tech. So, in my head and in other writings, I had covered the pops and clicks thing with the Disco and my additional research around that and then considered that the Disco would be the thing to use if all you wanted was to remove the pops and clicks (although the Disco does do more than that). They're easy to remove. Any basically efficient cleaner will remove those. The problem child in vinyl cleaning is removing hardened release agent. *No* RCM can remove that and most manual systems cannot either. The Disco is the only manual system I've found that can even start todo this job. Ultrasonic is even better and is the most efficient cleaner of this stuff. So I considered that the only reason you would buy a Degritter would be to focus on this super tough gunge. Why else would you be spending thousands? Surely not to remove easy peasy pops and clicks, eh? So I focused on that. Problem was, buried as I was in my research, I forgot that some people might be coming at the Degritter review new. That it might be their first ever vinyl cleaning review, that they wouldn't have been following my long-term cleaning thread or even heard of the Disco Antistat. So yes, I should have quickly covered the basics. For the record? Yes, the Degritter removes all pops and clicks. As I say though, that's the easy job. The hardened oils is the killer but you'll also need my Cleaning Guide to sort that which improves on the liquid system supplied by Degritter.. I hope to be receiving a new version of the Degritter to review in the next month or two so I'll be sure to add a 'pops and clicks' thing to that review.
Were talking about different technologies and different approaches to vinyl cleaning. A vacuum-based cleaner cleans horizontally and needs the vacuum to lift grime upwards from the groove. Cavitation in the Degritter removes the grime which then falls away from the vertically placed grooves. Once the water leaves the record a fan is needed to dry the disc. A vacuum is not required here.
@@TheAudiophileMan Thank you for clearing that up. A final question if I can pick you brain: I already own a nice 40kHz tank with sweep and power control and excellent filtration. Then the records air dry on stands. If I continue along this path but use the Degritter as a final step, for the more intricate cleaning, would that be a good plan -- or is that overkill? I currently put four records in at a time in my tank for a 10-minute wash at 90 degrees or so. I use Triton-100 in the bath, with some 91% alcohol. This would basically set the table for the Degritter if I went down that new path. If you have time, please let me know what you think. Also, excellent review of Degritter. If I can use my current stuff to supplement or enhance the Degritter, I would do so -- if it helps -- since everything is already paid for.
Hi Alan - the Degritter would replace your current system, I wouldn't use it 'in addition'. That would be redundant. You may also want to check out my manual cleaning Guide. Many of the techniques in that are used in ultrasonic cleaning, they're easily transferable. It might be of use to you: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
@@TheAudiophileMan Thank you for your input. I just wish the Degritter cleaned maybe three records at a time instead of only one. Because of your detailed review, though, I am giving it serious consideration. Nice job. I appreciate the cleaning-fluid tips, too.
Um.....a bit disappointed with a review of a £2500 cleaner that is so in depth and interesting where your conclusions are so spectacular and yet no sound samples...? A machine of this cost is going to have to make a staggering difference to my collection and clearly it did with your test samples so I would have really liked to have heard what it can do.. can I also ask what level of deck/amps/ speakers you use to reference the original sound vs the cleaned sound....I only have what I would consider a mid level system so wonder if I would actually benefit , or have the ability for my system to deliver an increase the sound stage.... Hear subtle reverb etc... So as an example I have a Sansuii SR 222 mk 2 with an ISO stand and housing that I have made (cabinet maker by trade) .I am still running nagaoki mm 110... Technics se 9600 and Harmon kardon citation 11 and monitor audio bronze 5... To me it's not a super detailed MC ultra high end system more of a work horse so do you think it would increase the level of detail you eluded too or would I need a much more sensitive set up? Thanks
Sorry - not on this channel. I take my role very seriously and I refuse to deceive my viewers. Any sound coming from this video would have run through 20-40 different processing gates before it ever reached you so, while you will hear a noise and you may even hear differences, it will not actually be representative of the product in question. In this case, the Degritter. What you will be hearing is the device you're using to view the video - nothing more. The only way you'd be able to judge the sound would be to sit in my listening room with me. And then only after getting used to the reference system it was connected to. Your system would be fine. If you're concerned, ask about a home demo. In this day and age, such things are expected and acceptable.
Greater tonal realism, maturity in the midrange, organic bass, etc. As for the '6' figure? I had to stop somewhere and actually reached 8 but began to hear diminishing returns. There's a sort of bell curve which begins to dip around the 6 figure. 8 is actually better than 6 but the level of improvement begins to drop. I suppose you could go to 15 or 20 but I had to stop somewhere, for the sake of my sanity.
@@TheAudiophileMan just wanted to thank you for figuring this all out for the rest of us. I had become frustrated that I could never quite put it all together to get my records clean the way I wanted them. Tried multiple ultrasonic cycles. Tried different surfactants, including tergikleen. Tried combination of surfactant application and ultrasonic cleaning with alcohol added. But what I hadn’t tried is multiple cycles of surfactant application and ultrasonic cleaning with alcohol added together. And I too tested 3 cycles, then a 4th, a 5th, a 6th, and finally a 7th. And what do you know, I heard significant improvement after each new cycle up to 6 cycles. But not much change going from 6 to 7. I’m using the Klaudio machine, which is no longer made. To me, it works better than and is more convenient than the other two machines I’ve tried-Audio Desk and Kirmuss. But man, the feeling of joy of how good the record sounded after cycle 6. Never would have guessed that such an improvement could happen by adding one extra cycle after having already run five of them. Thanks for taking the time to test all of this and for sharing your wisdom and insights.
Correct. For further details, this website 'How To' is focused on manual cleaning but the basic cleaning mechanics are the same I use for the Degritter: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
Check out my vinyl cleaning guide. It's generally aimed at manual cleaning but if you read up until the Disco Antistat enters the scene then all of that, to that point is relevant to the Degritter. Give me a shout if you need further info: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
The Degritter manual FAQ states this about shellac and lacquer-acetate records: “We have not conclusively tested cleaning shellac or lacquer-acetate records with Degritter. If you do clean one, then do so on your own responsibility”. Which seems odd… it’s really built for 12” LPs, but they have inserts that allow cleaning of 7” and 10” records. Does anyone know if it's safe with such records?
I received this reply from Degritter, "Indeed we have the statement in our FAQ, as we have not run extensive tests with these, but the 120kHz ultrasonic frequency is very delicate and definitely safe for the shellac records. Multiple customers of ours have been using Degritter to clean their shellac records with no adverse effects. One of these is Venerable Music (vmauctions.com/), an online shop specialising in selling shellac discs. In short, we can say that Degritter is safe for shellac records and can be used for cleaning these."
Definitely, yes. The vinyl formula includes a bit that 'sweats' into the vinyl in the press while the disc is being formed. This oily substance is naturally exuded to prevent the disc sticking in the press and for it to be successfully ejected. When he disc is ejected no-one removes this oil. No-one has the time. So the disc is packaged and sent to the shops and then bought and the oil is still there, covering grooves and masking detail. This machine will help remove it.
Hey Audiophile man, it’s me again. Would you be willing to do another update on this cleaner since you’ve been using it on more of your collection? Are you really doing six cycles for every record hahahah
@@TheAudiophileMan I’m a bit confused about your cleaning routine. Do you have multiple tanks and switch them out for each cycle or do you just dump the water every time? I’m trying to piece together the detail from the comments on your blog post. I really want to get the degritter this summer I have been saving up :)
I keep the same bath for around 30 or so cleans but it varies depending on the vinyl condition and how dirty it is. Then I dump the contents, clean it and top up with pre-decanted water/alcohol. See this Guide which will still be applicable to you, even though it focuses on manual cleaning. Everything up to the actual use of the Disco Antistat is relevant. It includes supplies to buy, how to prepare your vinyl, how to apply surfactant, etc.
@@fakrbob4099 Yes. Vinyl is not just PVC, it features anywhere between 10-15 chemical components in there. One of them is designed to 'sweat' during the pressing. Oily stuff leeches from the vinyl under heat/pressure. This is done to stop it sticking to the vinyl press and aid release. It's sometimes wrongly labelled as 'release agent'. Trouble is, the pressing plant doesn't get rid of this oily sweat when it's done. It's doesn't have the time or inclination or the cash. It pops that vinyl disc in a bag and ships it off to the wholesaler or record label and then you get it. So all your LPs include drying and hardening sweaty oily stuff in the grooves. Stuff that your stylus actually plays - which gets in the way of your stylus and the groove wall where the actual music is. So...yes. Clean it.
@@TheAudiophileMan Makes sense when you explain it like that. Would you ever do a before and after video where you include some audio samples? I think we’re all very interested in the difference, enough though it will be less obvious over RUclips compression
@@TheAudiophileMan Yea like if you had a pro-ject and kept applying cleaning solution, scrubbing and vacuuming for an hour? That would be a lot of work though and probably drive you mad. But let's say you did that for 15 minutes instead and compared that to 15 minutes of ultrasonic, is the ultrasonic really that much better in your opinion?
It's not as good. I've already done the test. I actually tested a Loricraft RCM (the best RCM money can buy) to its limits. It actually took me about four-five hours of cleaning and sound testing, cleaning and sound testing, ad nauseam, etc. To the point where sound just wasn't improving any more on the test disc. Using that same disk, one - just one - basic (not extended) clean even without my favoured surfactant process, improved the sound immediately. Why? Attrition from the cavitation process used during ultrasonic cleaning. A RCM doesn't have anything to compare, I'm afraid. It can't compete in performance terms. But of course, you pay for the privilege.
Great review paul. I have a simple project cleaner. Can I do a first wash with a surfactant. At the moment I put a few drops in my distilled water with 1% alcohol.
I would recommend Using a Disco Antistat first. Use the surfactant there. The Disco provides necessary abrasive elements to the clean you don’t get with a vacuum-based machine. Then use the RCM after to hoover up the loose elements still hanging around in the groove. And thanks :)
@@scottspinner1 always do a rinse afterwards though. To remove the surfactant from the vinyl surface. Just to be safe and to improve sound because your stylus will ‘play’ any residue.
I have observed a strange phenomenon with regards to cleaning records with this method. It appears that they have demonstrated cleaning only new and already clean vinyls! None has ever played any dirty record before and after cleaning with this method!
@@TheAudiophileMan Play each of them before and after cleaning. Let the machine prove itself that there is a great difference. ALL clicks, pops and rattles should vanish, except those noises that arise from deep vinyl scratches. Only then there can be value for money.
Put it under a microscope, no difference or NOT an audible one compared to methods hundreds of times less expensive. 3-4,000 dollars?? seriously? how many 3 dollar records and $300 stylus can you buy for that? I like a lot of your videos, and I have a good job. But you keep saying who is this device for? and who is it not for? It's for people with way too much money and too little sense. But yes whatever blows your hair back, mate. You can buy car wax that cost $500 US per 100ml as well. Cool gadget? oh yeah, I'm a gadget guy, I watched it and loved the 'GADGET' factor, and I will admit has a gadget factor of 11!
![Chino Pacas - Modo Capone (with Drake & Fuerza Regida) [Video Oficial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zjv8TQ0gBkg/mqdefault.jpg)
Bought one and delivered 28-05-21 even using a less rigorous cleaning regime can absolutely support the sonic improvements, it is like a veil being lifted and the machine is a joy to use. I'm hearing things on records I know very well that I've never heard before, wow
Hi Paul,
I took the plunge, and after an 8 week wait my machine arrived today.
Very pleased with it and currently cleaning my entire record collection...!
It's all your fault for posting such an excellent review!
Incidentally they obviously changed the mould tool as my water tank only has the minimum mark and not the max.
Bought one last year and can thoroughly recommend them, goes a long way in reducing all the clicks and pops you get on records.
I build my own including a ventilator (In house) drying system. It works excellent. The degritter is a nice machine, but for many of us just not in the right price range.
How?!
Thank you for infecting me with your madness .. my machine arrived a little over a week ago and now with 17 pieces of vinyl getting the full treatment ( six heavy, plus a rinse ) I’m confident enough to tackle my early BEATLE UK albums. Thanks again , and you will be great company as I embark on my first true audiophile ( within reason ) system since my original one from the mid-eighties ..
I have read through your written review. Very in depth and quite fascinating. The machine looks like it's a winner. A bit out of my price range unfortunately, but appreciate your time reviewing.Thanks.
Thanks for reading, Robert. And thanks for noting the time. This video was a bit of a beast :)
Great review. Pretty pricey, but waiting for mine to arrive now... Really like your channel and reviews. Quick question. Have you tried the HumminGuru 7 inch and 10 inch adapters with the degritter? Is there any reason why they may not work with the degritter? They are half the price for each one... $80 per for Degritter adapters and $40 each for HumminGuru adapters. Just curious...
Will be worth the wait, truly a fantastic machine
Great to hear your thoughts on the Degritter, Paul. Happy to hear you are also impressed with the performance and thought that went into the design. Must confess I have never cleaned the same record four times on a heavy cycle :) Cheers. /Paul
Thanks Paul for such interesting and comprehensive review of the Degritter. In the past I bought a Knosti and found it got rid of static but didn't the get the records very clean because I was still sometimes getting a bit chunk of fluff on the stylus after playing one side. I've now got a Project VCS Mk1 RCM and it seems much better than the Knosti. I think it does a better job, ie no fluff on the stylus after playing a record. I've only ever used Project's own-brand surfactant, so now armed with the knowledge from your video on surfactants I will be trying other brands (oh the excitement). I think I like yourself I am a lost cause and if I bought a Degritter I may have to be admitted to the Betty Ford clinic for recovering audiophiles. Keep up the good work. Love your channel
Paul, i was just introduced to the Kirmuss vinyl restoration system by a respected audiophile who sells high end equipment, I was not able to determine if you have evaluated the Kirmuss but if not I hope you will do so. Charles Kirmuss asserts that RCM vacuum machines, manual systems and even ultrasonic systems that use “specialty”solutions only add to the problem of residue left on vinyl and static charges created by these systems. I would look forward to seeing you evaluate the Kirmuss. Sincerely,
Please look into the Humminguru £250 solution that just finished its Kickstarter. Looks great. I think it will retail at around £350 and will be an entry level bespoke sonic record cleaner.
Yeah I’m also really interested in that, I hope it’s available soon!
Thumbs up for the record choice, the promo version too.
You can't beat The Future Sound of London from that time 🔥
a review that matches the machine itself, salute.
This gentleman’s sound-quality descriptions border on satire. They’re pompous, they’re preposterous, and…
they’re the exact sorta phrases I also use 😂.
Ah, jeez - I have to say, I do love his specificity:
“The ride cymbal never disappeared - each strike now rang thru to the next…”
“A sound so confident that it- it was arrogant…”
“It made the lead guitar, just, real - its presence now felt completely real.”
I’m paraphrasing here. There were so many more gems, just in this one video, too.
😆 Oh, man - this is my kind of nerdery. 👍👍
Loved the article on your website. Saving up atm to buy one in the near future.
And thanks for supporting the site, much appreciated. I've had lots of requests for a video version - hence this vid.
If you make it expensive enough they’ll buy it. I think it’s too expensive, but then if it was cheaper it will go unnoticed by audiophiles!
Ahh, you didn’t see my review of the Disco Antistat then.
Thanks for the review, Paul. Since you tested both, which do you think is best? The Degritter or the Audio Desk Vinyl Cleaner Pro X?
Degritter.
You answered every question I had about the Degritter ( Thank You ) ! I am thinking about buying a Okki nokki too use then using the Degritter after. I have put a lot of money into my collection and I feel that my vinyl deserves the best treatment! So one Day when I pass on my collection in my WILL those who acquire it are able to enjoy it as much as I did. Not my intention to be morbid ;-) looking forward to episode 2 of this video Cheers
I know a guy who has that exact combo of Okki Nokki and then Degritter and he swears by it.
I bought a Degritter because of your review__thx
Hi there, great vid I think im going to get one after watching your video. Its very expensive but likely worth it in the long run. Could you give me some info on the special solution you put in it to get the best out of it. Thanks Sean
Paul, Love your video on this subject. Do you think there can be any damage done to a record by cleaning it as many times in the Degritter as you describe--up to 6 heavy cycles?
Thanks!
Please check the Description - it features a company quote that addresses that issue.
Mine is on the way. Can’t wait…
Wonderful video. When you do your rinse cycle, do you empty the tank and add/use only distilled water?
Very nice of you, thank you.
I don't although grabbing a second tank to do the rinse is in my head to sort out at some point.
To be honest though, rinsing with the same tank hasn't produced any notable issue in sound terms.
One thing though, rinse with alcohol because you're looking to remove remnants of glycol (you do use glycol as per my cleaning guide, don't you? I can send a link if you have yet to see that.) plus any other nasties hanging on for dear life. The alcohol will get rid of any of that.
@@TheAudiophileMan Okay thanks. Could you send me the link for your cleaning solution where you use glycol? Also I assume you use isopropyl alcohol in your rinse. How much isopropyl alcohol do you add to the distilled water? Thanks again!
@@user-ti5in8mi8b Here you go: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
Have you heard of HumminGuru cleaner? It would be great if you have a in depth review on it! Many of us are waiting for its arrival!
Great review I wish I could afford one.
I wonder how the Humminguru ultrasonic RMC at £350 stands up against it?
As usual, an incredible & worthwhile video. I'm about to buy the MKII version. I saw an online review of the MKI, where the user said the cleaner was required to be plugged into a wall socket that was 20 amp. Did you find that to be the case Paul? Also, the same user found after cleaning two LPs, the temp was too high & the cleaner went into cool down mode. He said this was a frequent issue. Have you found any issues on this Paul?
Many thanks and well, I just plugged the Mk.I into the wall and thought nothing more about it, to be honest :)
Never had an issue with cool down. I think in the years I've had it, it's entered cool down mode once during a massively hot heatwave. That was it. As long as you give the box plenty of space, don't stick it near a radiator, don't corner it in, don't cover it or silly things like that...you'll be fine. I have a Mk.II here to review but it won't be on the channel for some time because of the large review queue I also have here.
@@TheAudiophileMan Thank you so much Paul for the very quick response reference my queries. Looks like I'm about to pull the trigger on buying one then. :) Regards, Pascal
That guy’s video doesn’t match my experience with my Mk1. A 20a circuit requirement for a 300w device makes no sense. At 110v, you’re only pulling an average of 2.73A. It’s more likely he has a bad IEC power cable.
Hi Paul! I'm curious about how you're executing your final, distilled-water-only rinse. Are you fully drying the record after the last surfactant cleaning cycle before the rinse? Or are you maybe leaving the record wet, switching water tanks, and rinsing it from there? (In part I'm trying to understand how valuable/useful having a second tank would be.)
Hi Derek. Yes, I dry first. Then rinse. Only because the drying cycle demands it and I'm in the mode so I'd have to reconfigure the cycle or stop it half way and it would take me more time to faff around doing that.
Swopping tanks is an option but I haven't gone that far yet. I'm in two minds because the single tank appears to work well with no obvious issues as long as you swop the water out on a regular basis. But if you want to go the two-tank route, then sure, that should work well.
@@TheAudiophileMan Thanks!
I bought this machine on your recommendation and am very happy with it so far. Curious if using it without the supplied cleaning fluid would yield better results if you say the fluid clouds the sound at all frequencies.
Check out my own vinyl cleaning guide. It's generally aimed at manual cleaning but if you read up until the Disco Antistat enters the scene then all of that, to that point is relevant to the Degritter. Give me a shout if you need further info: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
Great review, have you tried the Klaudio cleaners at all yet. I would love to hear your review.
Never had the opportunity, I'm afraid. And thank you.
Hi Paul I could see the enthusiasm you have for this cleaner, and by the end of the video I was totally sold my self. Which got me thinking,yes it is very expensive. And you could buy a good performing record deck for the money. But hears the thing ,we would still not be getting the best out of our vinyl . So as you implied this unit could be the best upgrade you could possibly make. Which brings me to my last intriguing thought, could one get away with a less expensive setup because the source material is manifestly improved . Food for thought as they say . Best wishes as always 😀👍👍👍
It all matters, basically :) I encourage a balance in terms of investment which is why I reviewed and recommended the budget Disco Antistat for manual cleaning on lower cost systems.
@@TheAudiophileMan yes you are right , but I have many records that have never responded to conventional cleaning and really are unplayable. Not I stress through scratches , but pure surface noise. Just the thought of going through my collection and knowing they would sound as good as possible , would prompt so say right sunshine your for bin or sail And my wife would get so space back 😂👍👍👍
I have a £30k turntable and to some extent it was wasted money as I was not hearing the full potential of my system, after 2 heavy cleaning cycles the sonic improvement is well wow and why did I wait, easily equivalent to an extra £2k on a styus!
Have you been able to compare this to the Humminguru?
I would suggest the use of a microscope to check the grooves before and after the cleaning process.
Great review Paul as usual I can believe the way you done the cleaning taking 1 hr was worth the time spent but 2500.00 is a lot of money have you tryed or reviewed the kirmuss ultrasonic the way they say to clean records the very same way and it takes around 40 mins no dryer but not needed the way it’s used thankyou for a great review Ian
Thanks Ian. Yes, check out my in-depth two part Kirmuss review on my website. It’s a much cheaper machine, it’s decent but doesn’t have the same abilities or performance as the Degritter. The extra cash spent on the Degritter - if you can afford it - is worth it. As I said in the video though, the lower-priced machines are still very useful.
I would have liked an a/b comparison of some discs, pre- and post- cleaning (maybe spoken word to avoid content matches, as techmoan did). Also an indication of energy usage. Other than that, interesting review!
I've commented on this sort of thing before and off the back off other products but I don't do that sort of thing, I'm afraid. And won't do in the future. You would not be hearing the benefits of the Degritter or what it's capable of, if I did that. You'd hearing the device that's playing your video. Nothing more than that. Even if you hear changes in 'tone' during the video, that sound will have absolutely nothing to do with the original hardware. Zero. Zilch. So I won't deceive my viewers by including it. Nope.
Even so - many thanks for your kind words :)
@@TheAudiophileMan fair enough, I do understand where you're coming from. But as someone who is most interested in improving general vinyl 'noise' (background crackle and pop etc) I think such a demonstration would be feasible. That would be more helpful for me than a subjective assessment of vinyl woo such as 'an airier soundstage'. Anyhow thanks for responding, cheers!
@@grayhalf1854This is where the rubber meets the road. Perhaps there are audiophillic benefits to cleaning with the degritter but all I really want to know is how many pops and clicks it can remove. This could easily be shown in a video.
Hi, nice video thanks. I'm wondering about the DIY filters. Can you please let me know what a ‘Wotsit’ shape is?
And also a link to any of the tools you've found to make the shape? Cheers!
Here's a link to the company's filter supplies. Hope that helps in shape terms: degritter.com/product/replacement-filters/ I must find a link to a RUclips guy who produces his own, he might be better in tool/technique terms. I haven't quite got my act together on that score. I'll have a hunt about for that link.
Hi Paul, I am considering to get ultra sonic vinyl clearing machine. But I can't decide which one to buy : degritter vs Audio desk pro
Discard the price difference, but which one is best in clearing the LP, get the best cleaned out of its.
I hear yr review on both machine on RUclips.
Thanks for your opinion in advance.
The Degritter.
@@TheAudiophileMan Thank you for yr opinion.
Hopefully the Humminguru machine works well when it get released in a few days and if it does, it will force competitive pricing across the board. 3000.00 is a bit excessive (and these guys aren't even the most expensive).
Great review! I'm a bit of a 'lost case' myself for the 'need' of getting the most of information out of my discs, so I figure once I have all the tools, yes, including the Degritter, I also will have to go all that 6-hellish cycle-way. Just one question here. I just received the Tergikleen. The enclosed instructions give a warning not to add alcohol to the Tergikleen. This might lead to a decrease of the Tergikleen's effect. You add Tergikleen to the record and put the record in a tank with a mixture of destilled water and alcohol.
So I wonder, have you tried a cleaning cycle with the Tergikleen where no alcohol was involved?
Yes, I did extensive tests with and without alcohol. Without reduced the cleaning effectiveness by a magnitude. Alcohol (up to a measure of 7%) does the best job of removing (melting away) excess oils.
Actually, I'm *counting* on the alcohol removing the Tergikleen (don't forget the Glycol in there too, incidentally). I'd be in trouble if it didn't. By the time the alcohol has removed the Tergikleen, the ultrasonic cleaning has already done its thing and Tergikleen has done its job. So the Tergikleen enables the cleaning efficiency to be at its highest, cavitation scrubs the groove, the alcohol melts the Tergikleen away into the bath. Sorted.
@@TheAudiophileMan thanks for your response Paul. And of course also for your extensive review on the Degritter.
Question. When you do the 6 cycles/washes do you let each cycle complete, meaning the drying portion as well? Or do you stop the Degritter before the drying and restart the washing?
Might answer this in next Friday's video, Brian. Watch the skies.
Hey. Just received mine here in the UK. Says they need electrically grounding. Do we need to do anything?
Nice toaster. Thanks for the review.
Wow! What a review Paul! I found it really interesting. I have recently got back to vinyl and have a rather nice system costing a significant amount of money. I am however rather disappointed in my record cleaning attempts. I am considering buying a Degritter and have watched this video from beginning to end. Just a couple of (probably obvious) questions... When you say you cleaned the records several times by applying surfactant to the record surface and then cleaning in the machine, do you change the solution in the tank? I'm thinking the surfactant content and therefore concentration will increase each time you clean a record. Can you elaborate please? Also for the final rinse, do you drain and refill the tank with a fresh solution of IPA and distilled water prior to rinsing?
Thank Monty - I do change the tank but not after every clean. It depends on the condition of your records but I change after around 30 cleans or so on average. I haven't noticed any changes in performance doing the clean this way. That said, you could, if that's an issue, buy an extra tank and plug that in for the 'rinse' cycle to ensure a clean wash.
Hello.
Why do you have surfactant on the LP disc directly and why not directly into the water with the cleaning agent?
Sincerely, Peter.
In the water? That's reduces efficiency because you're adding carefully diluted surfactant to yet more water which dilutes it again while the point of the surfactant - reducing surface tension in the grooves - is largely negated because what's left of the surfactant only effects what it touches. Via the bath? Not a lot. Even surfactant directly on the record is not as effective if it has not been pushed into the grooves via a Kabuki brush. See this Guide for more: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning. This is Part 1. Part 2 (also on my site) focuses on RCM use. Ultrasonic will be Part 3, I've yet to do that. That said, the Record preparation for Part 1 will also appear in Part 3 so by all means check that out.
Hi Paul, due to some surgery I had to postpone getting my Degritter. But this week, finally, yes! I went to my local store and got me one.
Hurray! Hurray? Already during the first run in the WASHING-mode the record (140 gram vinyl) hardly rotated. Furthermore, the Degritter showed me more than once, it was 'cooling water'. I got this message during the HEAVY mode opeation.
So I asked Degritter (they already promised me a new machine because of the rotation problem) if the 'cooling water' was there because of the spinning problem. But it wasn't. It was merely beacuse (quote Degritter) "the machine uses quite a lot of ultrasonic power to clean records. Some of this power is lost as heat in the cleaning water, so it requires cooling".
Because you were using the HEAVY cleaning cycle as well I was wondering if you got the 'cooling water' message (the cooling process automatically adds 3 minutes to the program, so you really want to avoid that, especially when it starts to occur more than once in the same washing cycle) and how you dealt with that.
Degritter had some solutions: use a second water tank (one in use, one just used and cools off), add distilled water ice cubes or place an icepack in the removable water tank. So I wonder, if you had the same message, what was your solution? Thanks!
Hi Bart, I hope you’re on the road to recovery and feeling a wee bit better. For the Degritter, cavitation in and of itself produces heat (which is why I am always suspicious of cleaners with temperature adjustment controls). If you use the Degritter (in fact any ultrasonic cleaner) in a hot climate or if the cleaner doesn’t have enough air circulation then it can get a bit too hot. I haven’t had this issue but if you do then I would insert distilled water ice cubes in the bath to keep the temp down. The ‘heavy’ option shouldn’t be a factor in itself.
@@TheAudiophileMan hi Paul, thank you for your quick response! And yes, glad I'm about to leave the long and winding road to recovery, . First thing I will do when the new Degritter has arrived is place it somewhere else in the room where air circulation might just be better. If that doesn't do the trick, well, I will place it in a larger room in a cool place. That should solve the problem. If not, I'll -as you suggested- go for the distilled ice cube option because an icepack might pollute the distilled water and alcohol in the watertank.
@@TheAudiophileMan un update on my Degritter. I received the new one and yes, the records are spinning just fine now. Because I still had a temperature 'issue', I placed the Degritter in my cellar (which we use as a film room).
Room temp there is 18.5C. The room measures 5.2m x 4.5m x 2.35m (H). The machine sits at 40cm above the ground, stand on the righthand side 1.15m from the closet 'object' (stairs) and on the lefthand side 1.25m (a chair).
The distance to the wall behind the Digritter is 20cm (also tried 10cm and 40cm).
The best I can do now before the 'cooling water' message kicks in, is three cyclus of heavy washing. At the first start the temp measured 20C/20C, at the end of the thrid cycle it was 27C/29C.
I tried a 2nd watertank (I bought one extra with my 1st Degritter), to continue right away but was able to only do two more cycles and then the temp again was 27C/29C. Yes, I have a bottle of distilled water in the fridge and also distilled ice cubes in the freezer. Just in case....
Because you never had a the 'cooling water' message I asked myself the question if you run all your seven (or maybe even more) heavy washing cycles in one go. Right one after the other. But could it be there were pauses in between the cycles or could you have missed the message. (The message disappears after 3min.) If not, then not all Degritters work the same.....
@@bartfeis3925 There's gaps. That might be the answer. Have you seen my Vinyl Cleaning Guide? Part 1 is aimed at manual play but the preparation for the cleaning of the vinyl is exactly the same for the proposed Pt.3 of this Guide aimed at Ultrasonics. It'll be a cut and paste job. So I prepare the vinyl with a surfactant, etc for each and every play. So yes, there is a pause in between cleans. If you haven't seen the Guide please do - it makes a big difference to the sound quality. The Degritter is great on its own but I actually see it as just one tool in a toolkit of hardware and liquids...if you're looking to get the best from it: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
@@TheAudiophileMan I saw your Vinyl Cleaning Guide, ordered all the stuff required (incl an extra Disco AntiStatic bath for the last rinse operation) to do the manual washing and did that exactly in the way you described it and did that for about 4 months. So now, using the Degritter, I keep on preparing the vinyl with the surfacant (1 ltr distilled water, added 10 drops of Tergikleen). And after that -it a short pause-, sometimes the machine drops actually the temp by 1 degree.
In the first cycle the temp rises with 4 (left number) and 5 (right) degrees. On the 2nd cycle another (the right one dropped 1 degree because of the preparing-the-record pause) 2 and 3, on the 3rd 1 and 2 more dgrees.
So I still can't get my head around why one machine doesn't rise the temp and the other does. Different software?? I've got 2.2.17v10.
Too many people complaining about price. I mean when you pay 5 dollars for a Sammy Davis record and you take it home and plunk it down on your 4000 dollar turntable playing through your 5000 integrated amp, its like buying an Aston Martin and putting dirty gas in it. To the people talking about building your own,sure you can build something similar for far less but it wont be as nice nor will it work as well nor can you just set and forget it.
i have watched both your videos on audio desk pro and degritter. looks like the degritter is the winner. I've been debating between the 2. my question: the audio desk has brushes that can remove fingerprints and stuff on vinyl. with degritter it doesn't't. so do you need to preclean a dirty vinyl prior to degritter? i have a VPI 16.5 and thinking of keeping for those instances. thanks
I'd keep the VPI as a secondary system for another room or second hifi and I'd use that with a Disco Antistat. The Disco provides the sort of attrition that a VPI doesn't offer. Have you seen my manual cleaning guide on my site? I'd use that and utilise the VPI to hoover the excess liquid after a Disco scrub. As for the Degritter? I've never had finger print issues. Cavitation should sort that, especially on the longer cycles and also if you use my surfactant treatment. Again, the website Guide talks about the latter.
only need 1 cleaner. will go with degritter. thx.
I know they are at very far ends of the price spectrum, but does the degritter clean records better than the Disco-antistat? I would love a Degritter but it’s beyond my means at the minute. Could I get a similar clean from the Disco-antistat?
Yes it does. The Disco is remarkably good for the price though. Especially combined with my own Cleaning System. Check out this Guide: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
I'm a new fan. I purchased a degritter based on your review. I also purchased some Tergikleen. My intention is to use the Tergikleen first and then follow the instructions for the degritter. My question is in the proper application of the Tergikleen. How should I approach it without purchasing a manual cleaner? Is it as simple as applying with a microfiber cloth?
Hi - please check out this Guide from my website: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
Its aimed at the manual, Disco Antistat but the background part, the tools and the vinyl preparation will be the same for a later Guide that I'll be sorting for the Degritter. Read that, any questions - give me a shout.
Looking for your opinion. Degritter or Audio Desk System Pro for overall cleaning performance and ease of use.
Found your answer in further comments, so disregard.
so years old grubby vinyl can be made to sound amazing but what about brand new records? would you notice any improvement (assuming storage contamination from manufacture to first play)?
Yes. Absolutely. Vinyl leeches an oil from within it's own inherent recipe to eject it from the press. No one removes that. The pressing plant certainly doesn't. It's too busy packing and shipping the things. So who needs to shift the stuff? You, my friend :)
Thank you for this review -- it's exciting to hear about the range of sonic improvements that are possible with successive cleanings. My question is, how does the Degritter perform in banishing some lingering crackles & surface noise on otherwise clean-looking records? I've got a few LPs that, after vacuum & other cleaning, look great and have great fundamental sound, but also have some persistent surface noise here & there. Wondering if the Degritter would quiet them down further.
This should sort all of that for you. Also use in conjunction with this feature. It's aimed at manual cleaners but the first - what - 14 steps should be used for vinyl prep before using the Degritter. There's no difference: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
@@TheAudiophileMan Thanks so much!
Hi Paul,
What steps would you recommend for cleaning the Degritter when switching between different cleaning fluids? I recently tried the Audio Intelligent Ultrasonic cleaner and to my ears, I feel the LP’s sound a little less airy and missing some top end, so looking to go back to the Degritter fluid. Presumably, a vinegar rinse would be needed and if so, two heavy cycles per the manual? Would there then be a need to rinse again with clean distilled water and to then replace that with distilled water for cleaning with the solution? Thanks for the help in advance!
I would advise checking out my Vinyl Cleaning Guide here. It's aimed at manual cleaners but the earl parts (pre-Disco) are valid for ultrasonics too. Have a read/watch and if you have further questions, give me a shout: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
Interesting and informative video (as normal from you 👍). Confused slightly regarding IPA concentration - 7% here, but a previous video covering this topic and you optimised IPA concentration at 0.5/1.0%?
Reasons for this change? TIA.
Glad you noticed, Jamie - 7% is only needed if you use Glycol during cleaning. See here for more on that: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
Fascinating
Does the rinse use clean water then?
What does it do with the wash water, does it go into a separate holding tank?
Paul, did you look up the meaning of "bespoke" before you began using it so liberally? It means something custom made for an individual, such as a tailored piece of clothing. But certainly you are not the first to misapply it. I remember some years ago one or two writers at The Absolute Sound became fond of inserting that in reviews. Wrong then and wrong here.
All that aside, thanks for your detailed review of the process and this machine.
I did use the word intentionally because I wanted to convey the fact that this is an ultrasonic cleaner 'designed for' a niche band of users. It is not 'off the rack'. As are the gamut of broad-based machines you might find within Amazon. The Degritter cannot be used to clean your false teeth or your wedding ring, as most other machines can (even many of those that purport to be vinyl cleaners). Hence, I wanted to emphasise the specific application and audience that this design addresses.
The only issue with heavy washes is that after 2 or 3 albums, the Degritter goes into a water cooling cycle that lasts about 4 minutes. This can be a bit frustrating at times. I’ve found that doing several quick washes on a album produces about the same results. With this method, the Degritter can wash about 8-10 albums before it enters a 4 minute cooling cycle. Also, while it does a good job on reducing random surface noise from dust particles and other light contaminates, it doesn’t remove small specks of crud that would cause a stylus to skip. That calls for elbow grease and an record cleaning machine for assistance. It does improve the sound of albums as you described. I also give my albums a final rinse with distilled water using my co-located record cleaning Okki Nokki machine. This has been my experience thus far after having cleaned almost 250 albums. I love it’s convenience and improved Sonics best of all. I use TergClean in the bath, but I’m going to try it diluted directly on the album itself on my next run of albums.
I haven't been subject to cooling cycles, I must say and I've pushed my review machine pretty hard.
Have a read of this Guide and see what you think. It's for manual users but the basic advice also works for ultrasonic cleaners and I'll be repeating myself over much of this Guide when I do a specialist ultrasonic written Guide: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
I also have this issue (cooling sets in after one or two heavy cycles) and wonder how much the ambient temperature (in the room where the machine is) affects this or if the different machines have different tolerances. My machine also "foames" the water a lot if I run it with low water level. When setting the level to medium it still "foames" the water to some extent when starting a cleaning cycle after the machine has been sitting for a while. The first quarter and up to three quarters of the record can get "foamed" before the water settles and stops "foaming". I might add that I have only used Degritter´s own cleaning fluid in the water tank so far. Will be doing the surfactant/alcohol in bath routine shortly.
Do you use two separate tanks when applying wetting agent vs. just a water rinse? Or are you applying the wetting agent directly to the vinyl? Either way doesn’t the wetting agent filter back into the tank after each use? And if so, the final rinse is still with water that has some wetting agent in it. Please clarify. Thank you.
On a general note, you can use two tanks although I never really found the need, to be honest. Specifically though? The surfactant is applied directly to the vinyl surface. There is a tank build up yes and I tend to replace the contents every 30 or so cleans. Depends on the state of your vinyl, though. The final rinse is just another cycle without the surfactant applied to the vinyl surface. Don't forget the alcohol, diluted into the tank too. Check out the vinyl prep portion of this Cleaning Guide for more info on preperaring your vinyl and the use of alcohol and Glycol as part of the cleaning regime. I use all of these when using the Degritter: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
@@TheAudiophileMan Thank you. I will definitely try this method.
Well, what can I say. To my eyes one of the best videos across. Thank you. So, does this video point out "Assuming Audio Desk as one of the best, Degritter is far above", right?
And thank you - yes, the Degritter is superior.
Well, I am a believer. Not for the faint hearted, but will take me ages to save up. Cheers
Can you please define “rinse cycle” ? Because if you only have one tank, and you are using it for your initial wash cycle, then are adding surfactant, that surfactant is then now diluted into your wash tank. Now you are doing multiple wash cycles after that, so what ar you doing differently to constitute a rinse cycle with the Degritter? I’m bit sure I’m following you. I tried using the included Degritter solution, but thought I heard some veiling as you suggested in your review, so I dumped the tank and have been only using distilled water and nothing else. But I feel like I’m not using my Degritter without using some sort of a solution, but the thing is, I don’t know how to “rinse”, and I’m seeing that you have to rinse the LP when using a solution. What am I missing? Thanks.
Firstly, please check out this website Guide for manual vinyl cleaning: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
Yes, it's aimed at a manual system but the basics will remain for a future Guide on ultrasonics. I'll be repeating much of this feature there. It will hopefully help in your cleaning quest.
Secondly, the 'rinse' itself merely means cleaning the disc but adding *no* surfactant this time around. This allows the alcohol in the bath to remove any final residue. The latter is required. Water only wouldn't be as efficient. It's the final residue spots that we're attacking here.
Despite the obvious recontamination concerns because were using a single bath source, the 'rinse' cycle works very well and I notice a definite sound change, as noted in this review. The change continued with the same bath for many cleans too.
You can buy spare baths, if you have the budget so you could 'hot swop' a clean bath for the rinse cycle if you wanted to go that far. I won't be doing that because I was happy with the rinse performance 'as is'.
Thank you for your response. To be clear.-You are adding the diluted tergikleen direct to disc in between each heavy wash cycle. 5-6 times in total. Then you drain all the used water out of the tank, (or if you have a second tank) use fresh distilled water for a “rinse cycle” but with some alcohol added. How much alcohol should be added per gallon of water? Thanks!
In all honesty, have you ever tried the degritter to clean a record that was previously cleaned by a cheap Chinese ultrasonic machine? Did it really improve the sound? Because I already own a Chinese machine and to me, the technology is the same, so I don't see how this could be an improvement. Yes, 'finer bubbles', but does it really matter? Can you hear the difference?
Yes, yes, yes and yes
I love this thing, but they really went overboard with the price (I know there are other more expensive machines), the introductory price was just right 1800€. I would buy that in a blink, but 2770€...no thank you.
There are some videos I have seen that suggest that after ultrasonic cleaning the records lose weight. This of course must be partly put down to the removal of dirt, but I am
concerned that there may be a loss of the actual vinyl itself, which I also have heard that with ultrasonic cleaning may be the downside of this method. Several RUclipsrs have recommended that ultrasonic cleaning be kept to a minimum.
I can understand, with my limited knowledge of physics, that the impact on vinyl with the "exploding' bubbles could do at least in the long term damage the record.
Do you think there is any basis for my concern?
I will address this in Friday's video - so with the skies!
Have you ever added Kodak Photo Flo to the cleaning fluid ?
Six cleans and a rinse seems excessive and unnecessary wear and tear on your 3k purchase. My collection was already cleaned the old fashion way by hand so I’ve had great success as follows for clean and new records. Applying a mixed application of distilled water, 9.99% alcohol and Tergikleen direct on the surface with a soft brush. 1 medium wash and dry and then 1 quick wash and dry rinse. LP’s come out sounding amazing and I’m not racking up a ton of cycles on my machine.
fyi: does the degritter damage your records? nope!!! i cleaned the same record in the machine 50 times. no damage.
How would I justify the investment on a Digritter vs the current turntable/stylus, amp, etc? Want to clean and use my old albums, but may want to upgrade components first. All within reason.
What's your budget?
I had the same question. I have a $1,500 very basic system - Klipsch 5s and a $600 pro Ject TT w Ortifon red cartridge. I was trying to decide between upgrading the speakers (to passive) with a new amp and preamp. Those I’ve chosen would cost I think $3,500. Or I could keep what I have, which I like but may not love, and get Degritter for my aging collection. Any thoughts?
I would like to work with what I have if possible. I currently have a Marantz SR7010, refurbished Technics SSL1300, and Paradigm speakers. Should I consider upgrading any? If so to what? (so many options).
Also should I use D4 with Parastat brush to maintain vinyl that’s been cleaned with Degritter but stored for a few months?
Wondering if you run a dry stage in each cycle? Drying can be turned off by setting drying time to zero. This might actually be better and shorter in time when you’re running multiple cycles. You’d turn on drying in the last cycle of course.
Yes, I do run a dry stage in order to maintain the proper ratios - as a first point - and not to have any alcohol residue remaining on the vinyl - as a second.
I would be interested to know how many times you have to clean a record on the Degritter before the stylus stops picking up crud from the depths of the grooves.
I've been a full time record dealer for over 20 years and have a number of different types of wet/vacuum RCM's and an ultrasonic record cleaning machine and have literally cleaned thousands of records.
I haven't found a machine yet that removes ALL the crud from the grooves. There is always deposits on the tip of my Gyger S Goldring 1042.
I've experimented with 6 cleans on my RCM's and my ultrasonic but there is still crud on the tip of the stylus.
Will the Degritter eventually remove all the crud so that none appears on the tip of the stylus?
Check out my own vinyl cleaning system here, via this link. It's Part 1 and focuses on manual cleaning via a Disco Antistat but the early parts are still applicable to RCMs and ultrasonics. I would say that 'crud' is easy to remove but only part of the problem. More in the feature: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
@@TheAudiophileMan The Degritter either removes all the crud from the grooves or it does not.
Without a microscope to inspect every 500+ metres of groove the best test for crud removal is the tip of the stylus.
I have been cleaning records for over 20 years and I have a Moth RCM, two Nitty Gritty RCM's, a disco-antistat and an ultrasonic cleaner and none of them remove all the crud from the grooves regardless of how many times I clean them.
I've used diluted natural alcohol, isoproponal alcohol, distilled water, wetting agents and they clean the surface fine but the deep grooves still have the crud.
I am fully aware of the correct cleaning regime with a final rinse in distilled water but it always results in a psychoacoustic improvement in sound quality BUT still crud on the tip of the stylus indicating that the improvement is not 100%.
When you tested the Degritter did you check the tip of your stylus?
Does the Degritter remove ALL of the crud?
Before I shell out the best part of £3,000 I would want to know that the Degritter is actually cleaning everything from the grooves.
@@geoffb7398 yes it does the job. I thought the review made that plain.
@@TheAudiophileMan Thank you for replying but I found the answer I was after from a comment on your website review of the Degritter.
STEVEN CROOK
18th October 2020 at 11:06 am
"Great review. I finally took the plunge around May this year and have been delighted by the results.
I have a copy of Abbey Rd I’ve rarely played, purchased new in the 80s. I’d cleaned it on a Moth, played it before Degritter cleaning and the stylus came back clean. After Degritter my stylus had a beard by the end of side 1. Played it again, virtually no beard. Cleaned again, beard. I went through 6 cycles before I got through side 1 with a clean stylus. I didn’t play side 2 at all until the last cycle and the stylus came back clean. From which I concluded that some LPs are just born dirty, and that if there’s a *lot* of dirt in the groove it gets removed, like paint, a coat at a time, with the next layer loose, but not removed. I’ve since seen this with three or four other LPs (out of the 500+ I’ve cleaned) so not common, but still a thing."
As I suspected the Degritter does NOT remove stubborn crud from the bottom of the groove.
It moistens the top layer and it is the action of the stylus which removes this top layer.
Each clean moistens the top layer and it is the stylus which removes it.
STEVEN CROOK needed 6 cleans before his stylus stopped picking up crud.
As this is the case I have saved almost £3,000 not buying a Degritter and relying on my existing RCM's, cleaning fluid surfactant and cleaning regime knowing that it is the stylus which is actually removing the crud all of which should be removed by the sixth clean and play.
Keep up the good work as I enjoy your reviews and have been a regular reader of Hi-Fi World magazine for many, many years.
@Geoff B This is why I posted the vinyl cleaning link to you. Any cleaner is not a silver bullet. You don’t focus on one item and expect magic results. It is part of a team that should be used alongside other tools and liquids. This is why I have spent years researching vinyl cleaning. A Degritter is the best vinyl cleaning tool currently on the planet but you need to utilise it correctly. Doing so, as directed will quickly remove all “crud”. I never suffer from it. I don’t even see it when I use a Disco Antistat. To repeat, that’s the easy task. That’s only half of the cleaning job. But I talk in more detail about that via the link.
Great review. Thanks! :)
Yes, it's amazing...but... I bought a Humminguru, upgraded my phono, and spent the rest on new records ;) My records are cleaner than ever and I have many more of them. With the Degritter I'd be eating crackers for half a year and still couldn't afford new records ;)
Yes, I can sympathise with that. Any ultrasonic cleaner is better than none at all.
Great review
I’d love if you could do an in-depth comparison of this to the Audio Desk RCM.
Although this is a review of the Degritter and not an A-B comparison, I did do that very thing and found that the the best the Audio Desk could do mirrored the simplest, basic clean on the Degritter. So the Audio Desk went all out, huffed and puffed and got as far as the bottom rung on the Degritter performance ladder. Then the Degritter went on from there, as described in the review.
@@TheAudiophileMan Thanks!!! I appreciate the reply. Which version of the AD did you use? The newest Pro X model? Did you use the same cleaning solution in each? I may have missed it but where can I find your cleaning solution recipe? Thanks !!!
The Pro - the X is basically the same. All variables were the same across my comparisons. Please check out this Guide for recipes and basic techniques which I also use for ultrasonic cleaning: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
@@TheAudiophileMan I’ll check it out. THANKS!
@@TheAudiophileMan BTW Awesome job on this review. I’ll be sure to do a rinse with just distilled water. I’ve cleaned my entire collection but now as I play them I do a rinse with just distilled water to remove any lingering surfactant. Keep it up! Love your channel.
Why was 'Vinylist' not included in the religion options on the recent census?
Hey Paul, since Triton X-100 creates better bass and Tergitol better highs, incorporate them into a single cleaning plan. I suggest three applications each of Tergitol then Triton surfactants, one after the other. A final rinse and finally the sky's open the sun shines brightly and we arrive in Lp Valhalla. Screw Brunnhilde , let Alberich abscond with those rings, Degritter and some surfactants will lead me to the twlights of the gods! Or maybe just some great sounding lp's. I'm good with that.
I think Triton created better bass because it's adding something to the surface of the record. That's my thought, anyhow. The more I use both, the more it appears that Tergitol leaves no residue (after a rinse, I hasten to add) and so is more transparent. That's why I didn't switch to Tergitol. Mixing the two would be detrimental, therefore.
Hello. Very interested in this machine. As most ppl, hesitant at this price point . My current cleaning set up is spin clean, then vacuum on the record doctor VI. I think it’s getting a good clean, but am still hearing some pops clicks etc. is this machine superior to my method and is it worth the money? I appreciate any input and advice. Thank you. Joe
Yes. Is the short answer :)
Hello. So I purchased the machine. Love it but am hoping you can shed some light. I bought the additional tank. So my process is one tank filled with the degritter cleaner, run a medium cycle then exchange the tank out with the other being just distilled water. Run again. Is the rinse cycle necessary to do after using the surfactant? Or is it not necessary.I’m hoping you can let me know if that is correct procedure. Thank you. Joe
Yes, the rinse cycle is important to get rid of any residue. Otherwise, your stylus will play it and you don't know if long term surfactant exposure might be detrimental to the vinyl itself.
Why do not you recommend the dishwasher I can not see the logic in your recommendation, if the company says it's ok, Keep the good work coming , tkanks
Sure, you can use that. With a hand wash I can be in control of what bits get washed, using what extra attention and pressure if required, etc. Either is fine.
Paul, --This was a great video, but you talk only about the improvement in the sound of the music, etc. after cleaning(s), but nothing about how well the Degritter actually cleans records of noise, resulting from dirt/junk in the grooves, which is the main objective to begin with. It would have been great if you had recorded the sound of a dirty record playing on your system before, and after a cleaning, to hear the difference. Not even a mention of that improvement aspect of the cleaning.
Yes, fair point. When I did the initial review, I think I was in the middle of some heavy-duty vinyl care testing. I'm talking years of testing here. I'd reviewed the manual Disco Antistat, I'd researched my own Vinyl Cleaning Guide (have you seen that yet?) and there was some meaty, long term, intensive testing going on with other associated tech.
So, in my head and in other writings, I had covered the pops and clicks thing with the Disco and my additional research around that and then considered that the Disco would be the thing to use if all you wanted was to remove the pops and clicks (although the Disco does do more than that).
They're easy to remove. Any basically efficient cleaner will remove those.
The problem child in vinyl cleaning is removing hardened release agent. *No* RCM can remove that and most manual systems cannot either. The Disco is the only manual system I've found that can even start todo this job. Ultrasonic is even better and is the most efficient cleaner of this stuff. So I considered that the only reason you would buy a Degritter would be to focus on this super tough gunge. Why else would you be spending thousands? Surely not to remove easy peasy pops and clicks, eh?
So I focused on that.
Problem was, buried as I was in my research, I forgot that some people might be coming at the Degritter review new. That it might be their first ever vinyl cleaning review, that they wouldn't have been following my long-term cleaning thread or even heard of the Disco Antistat. So yes, I should have quickly covered the basics.
For the record? Yes, the Degritter removes all pops and clicks. As I say though, that's the easy job. The hardened oils is the killer but you'll also need my Cleaning Guide to sort that which improves on the liquid system supplied by Degritter..
I hope to be receiving a new version of the Degritter to review in the next month or two so I'll be sure to add a 'pops and clicks' thing to that review.
Wouldn't a vacuum, rather than a fan, be better for drying (i.e., sucking up any stray particles, detergent, etc.)?
Were talking about different technologies and different approaches to vinyl cleaning. A vacuum-based cleaner cleans horizontally and needs the vacuum to lift grime upwards from the groove. Cavitation in the Degritter removes the grime which then falls away from the vertically placed grooves. Once the water leaves the record a fan is needed to dry the disc. A vacuum is not required here.
@@TheAudiophileMan Thank you for clearing that up. A final question if I can pick you brain: I already own a nice 40kHz tank with sweep and power control and excellent filtration. Then the records air dry on stands. If I continue along this path but use the Degritter as a final step, for the more intricate cleaning, would that be a good plan -- or is that overkill?
I currently put four records in at a time in my tank for a 10-minute wash at 90 degrees or so. I use Triton-100 in the bath, with some 91% alcohol. This would basically set the table for the Degritter if I went down that new path. If you have time, please let me know what you think. Also, excellent review of Degritter. If I can use my current stuff to supplement or enhance the Degritter, I would do so -- if it helps -- since everything is already paid for.
Hi Alan - the Degritter would replace your current system, I wouldn't use it 'in addition'. That would be redundant. You may also want to check out my manual cleaning Guide. Many of the techniques in that are used in ultrasonic cleaning, they're easily transferable. It might be of use to you: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
@@TheAudiophileMan Thank you for your input. I just wish the Degritter cleaned maybe three records at a time instead of only one. Because of your detailed review, though, I am giving it serious consideration. Nice job. I appreciate the cleaning-fluid tips, too.
Um.....a bit disappointed with a review of a £2500 cleaner that is so in depth and interesting where your conclusions are so spectacular and yet no sound samples...? A machine of this cost is going to have to make a staggering difference to my collection and clearly it did with your test samples so I would have really liked to have heard what it can do.. can I also ask what level of deck/amps/ speakers you use to reference the original sound vs the cleaned sound....I only have what I would consider a mid level system so wonder if I would actually benefit , or have the ability for my system to deliver an increase the sound stage.... Hear subtle reverb etc... So as an example I have a Sansuii SR 222 mk 2 with an ISO stand and housing that I have made (cabinet maker by trade) .I am still running nagaoki mm 110... Technics se 9600 and Harmon kardon citation 11 and monitor audio bronze 5... To me it's not a super detailed MC ultra high end system
more of a work horse so do you think it would increase the level of detail you eluded too or would I need a much more sensitive set up? Thanks
Sorry - not on this channel. I take my role very seriously and I refuse to deceive my viewers. Any sound coming from this video would have run through 20-40 different processing gates before it ever reached you so, while you will hear a noise and you may even hear differences, it will not actually be representative of the product in question. In this case, the Degritter. What you will be hearing is the device you're using to view the video - nothing more. The only way you'd be able to judge the sound would be to sit in my listening room with me. And then only after getting used to the reference system it was connected to.
Your system would be fine.
If you're concerned, ask about a home demo. In this day and age, such things are expected and acceptable.
What differences are you noticing from running 6 cycles rather than only 3 cycles? How did you land on 6 as opposed to 8 or 10, or 3 or 4?
Greater tonal realism, maturity in the midrange, organic bass, etc.
As for the '6' figure? I had to stop somewhere and actually reached 8 but began to hear diminishing returns. There's a sort of bell curve which begins to dip around the 6 figure. 8 is actually better than 6 but the level of improvement begins to drop. I suppose you could go to 15 or 20 but I had to stop somewhere, for the sake of my sanity.
@@TheAudiophileMan just wanted to thank you for figuring this all out for the rest of us. I had become frustrated that I could never quite put it all together to get my records clean the way I wanted them. Tried multiple ultrasonic cycles. Tried different surfactants, including tergikleen. Tried combination of surfactant application and ultrasonic cleaning with alcohol added. But what I hadn’t tried is multiple cycles of surfactant application and ultrasonic cleaning with alcohol added together. And I too tested 3 cycles, then a 4th, a 5th, a 6th, and finally a 7th. And what do you know, I heard significant improvement after each new cycle up to 6 cycles. But not much change going from 6 to 7. I’m using the Klaudio machine, which is no longer made. To me, it works better than and is more convenient than the other two machines I’ve tried-Audio Desk and Kirmuss. But man, the feeling of joy of how good the record sounded after cycle 6. Never would have guessed that such an improvement could happen by adding one extra cycle after having already run five of them. Thanks for taking the time to test all of this and for sharing your wisdom and insights.
For you have seen the light, by God I think you've reached 'auditory-Nirvana'. Interesting reaction.
So you applied surfactant between all six cycles then the last cycle just the seven percent alcohol rinse. Is that correct?
Correct. For further details, this website 'How To' is focused on manual cleaning but the basic cleaning mechanics are the same I use for the Degritter: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
Now I know why I haven’t touched my records in 17 years.
Would it be fine to just use distilled water with nothing added?
Check out my vinyl cleaning guide. It's generally aimed at manual cleaning but if you read up until the Disco Antistat enters the scene then all of that, to that point is relevant to the Degritter. Give me a shout if you need further info: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
The Degritter manual FAQ states this about shellac and lacquer-acetate records: “We have not conclusively tested cleaning shellac or lacquer-acetate records with Degritter. If you do clean one, then do so on your own responsibility”. Which seems odd… it’s really built for 12” LPs, but they have inserts that allow cleaning of 7” and 10” records. Does anyone know if it's safe with such records?
Hi Greg - let me ask Degritter about 78s. Be back as soon as I get an answer. Might be a little while though.
@@TheAudiophileMan Thanks, Paul. Actually the topic is pretty much covered in the Comments section of ruclips.net/video/LRGVekGqaRo/видео.html
I received this reply from Degritter, "Indeed we have the statement in our FAQ, as we have not run extensive tests with these, but the 120kHz ultrasonic frequency is very delicate and definitely safe for the shellac records. Multiple customers of ours have been using Degritter to clean their shellac records with no adverse effects. One of these is Venerable Music (vmauctions.com/), an online shop specialising in selling shellac discs. In short, we can say that Degritter is safe for shellac records and can be used for cleaning these."
@@TheAudiophileMan Thank you!
@@TheAudiophileMan does that make shellac records less noisy?
Do you think you’d notice big sonic differences cleaning brand new / near new records also?
Definitely, yes. The vinyl formula includes a bit that 'sweats' into the vinyl in the press while the disc is being formed. This oily substance is naturally exuded to prevent the disc sticking in the press and for it to be successfully ejected. When he disc is ejected no-one removes this oil. No-one has the time. So the disc is packaged and sent to the shops and then bought and the oil is still there, covering grooves and masking detail. This machine will help remove it.
Yes lowers the noise floor and enhances the audible range
Surely after you have cleaned every record for an hour, when you need to clean the record again you don't need to clean it as long as before .
How much???
Can you use the water more than once?
Yes. Depends how dirty your vinyl is in terms of swopping old water for new, though. Generally? Every 30 cleans, I change the water.
@@TheAudiophileMan thank you
Hey Audiophile man, it’s me again. Would you be willing to do another update on this cleaner since you’ve been using it on more of your collection?
Are you really doing six cycles for every record hahahah
What would you need from an update? Hopefully I can help and, yes, 6 all the way from me :) You don't have too, of course.
@@TheAudiophileMan I’m a bit confused about your cleaning routine. Do you have multiple tanks and switch them out for each cycle or do you just dump the water every time? I’m trying to piece together the detail from the comments on your blog post.
I really want to get the degritter this summer I have been saving up :)
I keep the same bath for around 30 or so cleans but it varies depending on the vinyl condition and how dirty it is. Then I dump the contents, clean it and top up with pre-decanted water/alcohol. See this Guide which will still be applicable to you, even though it focuses on manual cleaning. Everything up to the actual use of the Disco Antistat is relevant. It includes supplies to buy, how to prepare your vinyl, how to apply surfactant, etc.
How do you rinse your records? Do degritter have a rinse cycle?
I clean again without adding surfactant. That does the job for me. The alcohol in the bath removes any lingering residue.
@@TheAudiophileMan Thanks for answering my question. Do you feel it’s worth cleaning records which are new?
@@fakrbob4099 Yes. Vinyl is not just PVC, it features anywhere between 10-15 chemical components in there. One of them is designed to 'sweat' during the pressing. Oily stuff leeches from the vinyl under heat/pressure. This is done to stop it sticking to the vinyl press and aid release. It's sometimes wrongly labelled as 'release agent'. Trouble is, the pressing plant doesn't get rid of this oily sweat when it's done. It's doesn't have the time or inclination or the cash. It pops that vinyl disc in a bag and ships it off to the wholesaler or record label and then you get it. So all your LPs include drying and hardening sweaty oily stuff in the grooves. Stuff that your stylus actually plays - which gets in the way of your stylus and the groove wall where the actual music is. So...yes. Clean it.
@@TheAudiophileMan Makes sense when you explain it like that. Would you ever do a before and after video where you include some audio samples? I think we’re all very interested in the difference, enough though it will be less obvious over RUclips compression
Wonder if you would get the same sonic improvements vacuum cleaning for an hour?
When you say that, do you mean using a basic RCM like a Pro-Ject or VPI or Moth, etc?
@@TheAudiophileMan Yea like if you had a pro-ject and kept applying cleaning solution, scrubbing and vacuuming for an hour? That would be a lot of work though and probably drive you mad. But let's say you did that for 15 minutes instead and compared that to 15 minutes of ultrasonic, is the ultrasonic really that much better in your opinion?
It's not as good. I've already done the test. I actually tested a Loricraft RCM (the best RCM money can buy) to its limits. It actually took me about four-five hours of cleaning and sound testing, cleaning and sound testing, ad nauseam, etc. To the point where sound just wasn't improving any more on the test disc. Using that same disk, one - just one - basic (not extended) clean even without my favoured surfactant process, improved the sound immediately. Why? Attrition from the cavitation process used during ultrasonic cleaning. A RCM doesn't have anything to compare, I'm afraid. It can't compete in performance terms. But of course, you pay for the privilege.
@@TheAudiophileMan Wow, thanks for your insight, much appreciated.
Great review paul. I have a simple project cleaner. Can I do a first wash with a surfactant.
At the moment I put a few drops in my distilled water with 1% alcohol.
I would recommend Using a Disco Antistat first. Use the surfactant there. The Disco provides necessary abrasive elements to the clean you don’t get with a vacuum-based machine. Then use the RCM after to hoover up the loose elements still hanging around in the groove. And thanks :)
Thanks paul I wrongly thought surfactant in large quality was dangerous for vinyl. Obviously not if clean of fairy quality. Ta.
@@scottspinner1 always do a rinse afterwards though. To remove the surfactant from the vinyl surface. Just to be safe and to improve sound because your stylus will ‘play’ any residue.
How does it compare the audio desk?
The Audio Desk is excellent and highly recommended. That said, the Degritter is the better performer and also the better design.
When you say a “final rinse”, do you mean a wash with water and no alcohol?
Hi Miguel - a wash with no surfactant.
@@TheAudiophileMan Ok, so effectively a second run in the Degritter with distilled water + 7% alcohol.
@@miguelbarrio Yes
@@TheAudiophileMan Great channel and website btw. Thx!
Double Osmosis water or Distilled?
Both are good and use DO if you have a system in your house to save cash but distilled is slightly more efficient so I'd go for that.
I have observed a strange phenomenon with regards to cleaning records with this method. It appears that they have demonstrated cleaning only new and already clean vinyls! None has ever played any dirty record before and after cleaning with this method!
How do you know they’re not dirty?
@@TheAudiophileMan Play each of them before and after cleaning. Let the machine prove itself that there is a great difference. ALL clicks, pops and rattles should vanish, except those noises that arise from deep vinyl scratches. Only then there can be value for money.
@@DrSVNarasimhan I think I fully reported the sonic differences in my review, did I not?
Impressive review. But i‘ll stay to my Knosti for a while. 😀
the humminguru is coming
I have a Humminguru on order. I hope Paul get one to review.
Thx
Put it under a microscope, no difference or NOT an audible one compared to methods hundreds of times less expensive. 3-4,000 dollars?? seriously? how many 3 dollar records and $300 stylus can you buy for that? I like a lot of your videos, and I have a good job. But you keep saying who is this device for? and who is it not for? It's for people with way too much money and too little sense. But yes whatever blows your hair back, mate. You can buy car wax that cost $500 US per 100ml as well. Cool gadget? oh yeah, I'm a gadget guy, I watched it and loved the 'GADGET' factor, and I will admit has a gadget factor of 11!